Tuesday, December 4, 2012

The Juice Nails the City Hall Demo Initiative

David K wrote a piece on Refuse the Juice that hits the nail on the head about the ballot initiative meant to "save city hall".

There's nothing I can really add to what he wrote so why bother. Go read it if you haven't.

But I do have some comments for the Save City Hall People. For God's sake, take the hint...you lost.

It was a fair vote. There was no conspiracy. El Pasoans, by HUGE margins voted in favor of the propositions. Its a freakin' mandate. They want baseball and they want it downtown. The stadium discussion, from day one, has always been about a downtown location. No other site has been floated around by the city. Its been about downtown from the start.

The fact that there is likely to be a dug-out near the current spot where city reps actually cast votes has also been discussed from day one.

I know in that little echochamber most of you exist in you think you are some sort of heroes but you aren't. You're about to waste tax-payer money on yet another ballot initiative that was probably hastily and incorrectly written...again.

When I was a kid and you got in a street fight, you took your ass whoopin' like a man. If you fought hard and did your best you could still hold your head up because you didn't back down. Once it was over, it was over.

I don't know when exactly it was in this country that it happened but for some reason we now live in a country where when you lose, you no longer "take it like a man". Now, you stomp your feet, cry, threaten to secede, or try to get a court to give you what you want because the people said NO!

When the news broke about the petition the other day there was one sound you could hear across the city. The sound of people rolling their eyes all at once.

At what point will you realize that the people of this city want to go in a certain direction. No one took your vote away, no one took your voice away, no one took anything from you. You just lost.

Personally I really wish a certain few city reps would stop encouraging these people. The election is over. Ya! Let it go. You lost, get it through your head.

And stop acting like you really care about that city hall building. You don't. No one does. There isn't some historical value or significance to the structure. Its not a signature building. Its neither particularly beautiful or ugly. Its just a building.

You don't like how the deal was done. I get it. I didn't either. But there was a vote and El Pasoans voted overwhelmingly in support of the propositions. Its time to move on.


Anonymous said...

it was not about the baseball stadium it was about public trust that why a lot of people don't vote or like their government because they don't tust them. Also the vote this November does mean their mean supported the stadium it was because they did not want their taxes increases that what the city's media campain was about. Mayor Cook and even you have said it was not about the stadium because it was going happen anyway. Also the petition turned in does have the required number of signatures so they are a lot of people who opposed this. I still hope people will hold the city accountable because what they did.

Anonymous said...

Despite the fact that some say it's a lost cause, I think it's significant that the judge dismissed the case on the grounds that it was filed in Federal court...not the appropriate venue. Another significant fact is that niether the lawyers from the plaintiffs (Salazar et al.) nor the lawyers for the defendants (City)who, by the way, were arguing that it was hyperbole and frivolous, or something along those lines, were able to figure out for themselves that it was being filed in the WRONG court. There may be good grounds for the lawsuit if filed appropriately; it may be much more than hyperbole and frivolity. I compliment the judge and I'd say both parties need much better lawyers!!!

Anonymous said...

It's not about the ball field or baseball. It's about the stupid, wasteful idea of tearing down city hall and then turning around and spending millions on new offices, plus tearing don he old one and remodeling the new ones. WTF? It's wasteful. Why not spend that money on property to build the ballpark. Like say the Asarco site. They can then keep the smokestacks and lots of people will be happy and we can have our own team. Lets face it. El Paso could use some city pride and fix up its shitty downtown. But we just can't afford to throw money like this. Si I hope the judge does stop ths craziness and then Mr Hunt and Mr Foster will put aside their pride and do something reasonable. Because we can't depend on those idiots and that Joyce woman to do things right.

The Lion Star said...

It can't be put at Asarco. It would cost even more mo ey because of environmental clean up. That site isn't even an option.

Thomas said...

The Killer deadly slag at Ararco that some have been screaming about for years can be found all across El Paso and El Paso county. The Killer slag was used all over El Paso in the past.If the slag is as bad as being claimed then we should dig up and clean the whole county.Seems the killer slag is not as bad as claimed there still is and has been a human population living on top of the killer slag for generations and the killer slag has not killed them off.Jaime it all bad science and non-sense.

Jorge said...

To the first anonymous: 2% of the total people who voted is NOT a lot of people. The recall rules need to be changed bc 2% is a joke. If you get 40% then you will have a point.

To the third anonymous: They would of had to spend the same amount fixing the current city hall. Plus they have been planning for years to move city hall near the court house and sell the land to a developer anyway so it was bound to happen sooner or later. I think its even in Plan El Paso.

AGAIN the city DOES NOT OWN Asarco. In order to acquire it, they would have to wait till 2014-2015, then buy it, then build. Do you think AAA was going to wait that long?

Hunt and Foster are rebuilding this town like it not, and personally thank god they are because no one else is!

Mark Ortega said...

I'm proud that you are taking an anti bailout stance with this article. If you fail, you fail.

Anonymous said...

I'm dead set against the wasteful destruction of City Hall, but the voters expressed their will, they desire to put a AAA Ballpark downtown, the vote wasn't close, it was overwhelming in favor of this course of action.

As much as I agreed with Ray Salazar, I don't see how the demolition of City Hall is put off, especially if the wording on the proposition is faulty, like it was with "Pastor" Tom Brown's electoral fiasco. As much as I dislike how this whole effort occurred, there was nothing illegal about it.






This is a fiasco of it's own making now.

That City Council agreed to this proposal, without having every single other building's ownership-the EP Times for example-nailed down, in advance, is a joke.

That City Council agreed to use massive taxpayer funding for a private business, without getting anywhere near as much in return, is a joke.

That City Council agreed to a $3 Million Ballpark design, is a joke.

To review, the city will be spending tens of millions of taxpayer funds, to buy buildings, from the same people who own the AAA team, which the city will also be paying for, AND the city will be funding the ballpark design for the same people it's buying the buildings from.

Remind me again of how the city's getting the better financial end of these deals, because I'm not seeing it.

And if the city was serious about taking possession of those buildings for its new, multiple city halls, why isn't Eminent Domain being used, or at least threatened in order to get a better price for the taxpayers?

Will this taxpayer funding of a private business also bring about a growth in private-sector middle class jobs locally, or will most of the well-paying positions go to out of towners, leaving El Paso with a miniscule amount of low/minimum wage jobs with few, if any, benefits?

If the new stadium isn't also used for other occasions, such as concerts, or big fights, but is closed for most days other than when the team plays, will it ever be a moneymaker for the city, and are there written contracts ensuring that the team's owners can't move elsewhere if they insist on future accommodations from the city, such as private booths, skyboxes or huge Diamondvision replay screens?

Are there ways to legally ensure that city funds for the team and ballpark are actually spent on those reasons, as opposed to such funding going directly into the owners bank accounts?

To see the above question in practice, just read how the Florida Marlins owners are shafting-royally-the citizens, busting up an all-star team less than one year after getting a shiny new stadium, courtesy of those same taxpayers.

Which brings about another point, the Marlins, quite frankly, sucked, even with that huge payroll.

Are the owners of the El Paso AAA team guaranteeing the city won't lose money if the team posts consecutive, multiple, losing seasons, since fans are far less inclined to financially back a consistently losing team?

And of course, it's not like there's EVER corruption related to official contracts here in El Paso, both city and county.

As I stated at the start, the voters have spoken, they've given this deal a true mandate, and for that reason alone, I hope the deal is as wonderful as it's proponents have been claiming, I have to hope I'm wrong, and that my negative beliefs will be completely demolished.

But I don't think I'll be proven wrong.


Anonymous said...

One other question, who makes up the financial difference if not enough people visit El Paso and stay in our hotels to cover the costs of the downtown stadium's construction?


The Lion Star said...

Its not just the slag that is a problem Thomas. After seeing the environmental reports there are heavy metal contaminants as well and while they might actually be across El Paso, there are concentrated in potentially lethal doses at the actual site. And we don't own the property there. It can't be built at ASARCO.